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I'm running a DnD 5e campaign and had a dragon-born sorcerer with Draconic Bloodline as a sorcerous origin that used the level 9 Wish spell to wish to become a 'true dragon.'

Are there any rules about having dragons as PCs? If so, where? If not, how would you go about making it somewhat balanced?

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• 2018-10-16  Half-Dragons that desire to destroy their foes with the physical might of a dragon become Dragoons, which are occasionally mistaken for dragons themselves, due to their fearsome abilities. Bonus Proficiencies Edit. Starting at 3rd level, you gain.
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Background

An excerpt from the wish spell:

You might be able to achieve something beyond the scope of the above examples. State your wish to the DM as precisely as possible. The DM has great latitude in ruling what occurs in such an instance; the greater the wish, the greater the likelihood that something goes wrong. This spell might simply fail, the effect you desire might only be partly achieved, or you might suffer some unforeseen consequence as a result of how you worded the wish.

I was considering going with the 'the spell failed' option, but decided to have a little fun with it. I warned him about the chance of it going horribly wrong, but he said it would be out of character for his PC to turn down any opportunity no matter the risk.

So I set up a roll table: 00-10 killed him or similar, 11-35 turned him into an egg or against the party or a few other creative things, 36-50 the spell just failed with all of the negative effects of the wish spell gone wrong, 51-80 gave some cosmetic changes, 81-97 adjusted stats a little (can no longer hold weapons an shields but breath weapon is stronger etc.), 98-99 and it actually worked.

Of course he rolled a 99. I gave him exhaustion and said he needed time to recover from the ordeal, but I really need time to figure out what to do with him.

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3 Answers

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I would treat this as if the sorcerer had cast True Polymorph (another 9th level spell) and concentrated for the entire duration to make the transformation permanent. Since you subjected the sorcerer to great additional risk to use Wish to become a dragon (and the sorcerer really wished to be a dragon) you should treat this as a change in reality rather than a magical effect that can be dispelled.

True Polymorph allows a creature to be turned into any other creature with the same or less challenge rating. Any of the adult dragons in the monster manual should be appropriate permanent forms for the sorcerer. For flavor he should probably turn into the same type of dragon as the dragon in his draconic heritage for his bloodline.

Since permanently being an adult dragon via True Polymorph isn't expected to break the game, being an adult dragon (which can't be dispelled) shouldn't break the game either.

Wishing at lower levels

A lower level character might discover a ring-of-game-breaking-wishing (or its equivalent) and make this wish. Since True Polymorph isn't a spell of 8th level or lower, characters shouldn't expect that their wish be successful. If the character isn't careful in how they word their wish they could become a stone dragon (a statue), temporarily a dragon, a specific dragon who lives somewhere else or on another plane, a dragon that slowly loses its memories and pre-dragon personality, etc. If they are careful in how they word their wish they can still receive only a partially achieved effect and become a wyrmling (or young dragon if the party is in the 7th-8th level spell levels).

CirdecCirdec$endgroup$$begingroup$

Wishes: 'Be careful of what you wish for, since you are sure to get it.' (old adage)

Are there any rules about having dragons as PCs?
You are in the area of rulings more than rules.

Green Half Dragon

If so, where?
Some places to get ideas for your ruling would be in CH 4, DMG, creating NPC's and the optional villain classes. This is to compare the powers of a dragon with the powers of a given level of NPC. Also take a look at the DMG page 285-289 on variant class options. Then look at how CR is arrived at in the DMG for a given monster that you custom make. That may not give you a balanced new PC type, but it can help you get in the ballpark.

Consider the challenge rating of the dragon. A party of 4 should be able to handle a CR equal to their level. If your players are level 10, adding a young gold dragon is similar to adding 2, 3, or 4 tenth level players to their party. (Depends on how well your players handle monsters in that CR). Adding an adult gold dragon is like adding 2, 3, or 4 level 17 characters to the party, again, depending on how good they are at harder or deadly challenges. See page 9 discussion on Challenge in the Monster Manual.

For example, a party of 4 3rd level characters should find a monster with challenge rating of 3 to be a worthy level of challenge, but not a deadly one.

If not, how would you go about making it somewhat balanced?
Without a lot of play testing, hard to say. With that caveat in mind ..

You set him a high bar, and he cleared it with a dice roll .. D&D does that sometimes. Some points to go with the excellent reply by Cirdec.

How old is he in dragon form?

Proportional or direct age?
- From the table on page 86, if you choose a 1:1 ratio, he is a young gold dragon (age 20, 30, 40, etc). CR = 10. The powers for that are on MM page 115. That's fairly powerful creature, with flying, and water breathing, etc. A high level sorcerer is no slouch himself.
- If you choose the proportional level of maturity to make him an adult gold dragon, he has legendary actions and can change shape into a beast with CR less than 17 (CR of that age gold dragon). Compare that to a NPC human Mage CR 6 at 11th level, access to fifth level spells. (MM page 347). Archmage NPC, access to 9th level spells, CR 12. (MM page 342). Likely not balanced with his fellow adventurers and their abilities.

1. How old is the sorcerer?
   Early 20's? 30's? 40's? 50's? Suggest that he is that age, and thus a young golden dragon. (Depending on the character level of the sorcerer and the party, this may suffice. Or not).

2. How old of a dragon are you willing to make him?
   Humans live less than a century (so 80-100 would be a long life) years (PHB. p. 31) Dragons can live 800+ (DMG p 86). That's roughly 10 to 1 in proportion.

3. What level is he, and what level are the other party members?
   If they are at level 13, it's one thing, if they are at 19 or 20 they are in the epic tier. Consider their CR rating using the tools in DMG, p 273 - 279 to compare theirs to his in his new form.

4. Balance?
   If you allow proportional age (adult gold dragon) and the party wish to keep playing, you may need to scale his abilities into somewhere young and adult. His change shape power may need a limitation, or removal. (Depending on level, allowing him to use that to turn into his old sorcerer self is likely a power downgrade). He isn't a sorcerer anymore, he's a gold dragon .. who can change shape into humanoid or beast form. (At no higher CR than the gold dragon is, p. 114, MM, which is CR 17. That's powerful).

5. In between?
   With a bit more work, you might be able to find something in between adult and young, or between wyrmling and young if you take Cirdec's conservative approach. Tweak it by applying various DC's (with a chance of failure) on his Young or Adult powers to keep him within bounds of your other players. Trying to tie this to 'PC levels' in the 'Gold Dragon Class' is something that would need play testing to get into the ballpark. Allowing him to progress in level to Adult gold looks hard for balance unless you vary skills and attributes. The other players, human, might be dead by then, although elves, dwarves, and half elves may live long enough to see their friend grow into an awesome beast.

Recommendation
If you proceed with this, he's a young dragon with as many dragon years as human years.

The adventures that this change can bring to the party, in terms of how NPC's, lords, wizards, thieves, sellswords, kindoms, etc react to a gold dragon running about could be great fun. He could end up as a wanted man/dragon, his likeness up in all of the post offices on the King's road ..

Suggest also: Disadvantage on persuasion checks for anyone owning livestock. :)

Afterthought: if what you were looking for is a way to have levels of progression for the PC along with the rest of the party, a way to moderate the aspect of power that is HP is to set the hit dice (young) at the sweet spot of young (about 50-70 years old) and then reduce some proportionally for the age the sorcerer is when he turns into one. (If he's 25, Reduce by a fraction so that there is room to grow).

This is if the 'PC dragon' is to be able to grow and achieve more ability as the other players in the party progress. Do the same with reducing the number of HD for breath weapons. Or make the recharge harder to score on a die.

If you don't want to do that, then the points Cerdic made about making a wyrmling or a young dragon still give you room to vary the hit dice if you think one is too weak or the other too strong, compared to the rest of your party.

KorvinStarmastKorvinStarmast

How To Become A Half Dragon 5e Free

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If this wish means they will become an adult gold dragon because his dragonborn sorcerer has the gold dragon bloodline, that means changing from a medium-sized creature to a huge creature. In that case, then here are some things I think would be useful:

• No more implements since dragons don't really have the ability to hold such a small item.
• Lose all other languages with the exception of Draconic and Common.
• Lose all use of any unnatural armor.
• The increase in AC from dragon scaling would no longer be added because you have the scaling from being a dragon.
• He might gain wings, but have no flight speed. Perhaps clumsy flying.
• As for the sorcerer levels, as far as spells go, I think you should be required to retrain all your spells to only damage spells and as close to fire as possible. This means no ray of frost, for example.
• I think it would be fair to never allow the character to use the wish spell again.

In summary: Lose armor, no implements, no weapons other than the bite, claw, and tail that you would gain; tetrain spells to better suit your new role; and to forever be restricted from ever using wish.

And since he is now beyond the other characters, he should no longer be allowed to gain experience as a PC. He should gain experience as a dragon. Learning to use his new form to its full potential should not be allowed. He should never gain perfect flight. He should never be able to use his breath weapon like a dragon (i.e., rolling to reuse). If at any point he tries to manipulate the situation to gain perfect flight or breath weapon recharge, he should have to make a will save to attempt to keep his sense of self. On a failed save, he loses his character abilities and character. The dragon becomes, for all intents and purposes, an enemy and he loses his character.

This is my thought on a PC using wish to become a 'true dragon'.

SevenSidedDie$endgroup$

protected by Oblivious SageFeb 1 '16 at 3:35

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What are the differences between 'Dragonborn', 'Half-Dragon', and 'Draconian' races in D&D?

In the Hoard of the Dragon Queen adventure, for example there is a Half-Dragon npc. I had assumed that when writing the adventure they were only allowed to use known material from Basic, and so renamed the Dragonborn into 'Half-Dragon' for the sake of compatibility etc. However, the dragon breath rules are not at all similar for the half-dragon and the dragonborn, and I've also noticed wiki article that imply that they are different races entirely. (Thus introducing me to the term Draconian)

Are there clear differences between these three races, (in the same way there are differences between Goblins and Hobgoblins, or Dragonborn and Lizardfolk and Kobolds,) or are they really just three different setting names for the same basic race?

Answers can either be D&D 5e specific, or be based on the lore from all editions of Dungeons and Dragons. (I'm assuming here that the answer will be the same regardless)

Here are two images, the first one is a 'half-dragon' from the front of the Hoard of the Dragon queen module, and the second one is a 'dragonborn' from the 5e player's Handbook. I've included these images to help explain my confusion.

GMNoobGMNoob$endgroup$

5 Answers

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Half-dragon

Someone who has strong draconic ancestry, e.g. half their ancestry (one parent, or child of two half-dragons, whatever; someone who was, strictly-speaking, a quarter dragon or eighth dragon might still be modeled with the half-dragon rules). Literally is a dragon, in game terms and in fluff terms, though with a roughly humanoid body shape.

Sometimes ritual or magics could be used to infuse a person with draconic aspects, in game terms becoming a half-dragon. In 3.5e, there was a “prestige class” called the dragon disciple that gained this as its final level, for example. This obviously did not retroactively change the person’s ancestry, just changed their bodies to match those of “born” half-dragons.

In 5e, Hoard of the Dragon Queen is so far the only place where half-dragons have been seen. They are clearly distinct from dragonborn, but the book has actually been criticized by reviewers for not explaining exactly what the distinction is. Based on this twitter exchange..

I expect to learn more of half-dragons in the Dungeon Master’s Guide or Monster Manual.

Dragonborn

Originally the “Dragonborn of Bahamut,” these were humanoid devotees of Bahamut, the good dragon god, dedicated to the slaying of the evil dragons aligned with Tiamat. They underwent a ritual to change themselves from whatever race they were originally, into something more dragon-y. The process literally involved getting put in an egg and later “hatching” as a dragonborn.

Despite this process, the dragonborn were still members of their original race, not true dragons. They did lose most of the racial features typical to that race, though, and replaced them with several dragon “aspects,” such as a breath weapon or wings. See Races of the Dragon for more details.

In 4e, these were changed into a more generic draconic-humanoid race, rather than a modification of existing people, and were supposed to be descendants of Io, the dragon greater god. This has remained their story for 5e.

In both 4e and 5e, the Dragonlance Campaign Setting changed the interpretation of dragonborn; see Draconians, below.

Draconians

These are from the Dragonlance Campaign Setting, where they were made by an evil god from the eggs of good dragons; see Canageek’s answer for more details there.

In 5e, Draconians are represented primarily using the Dragonborn race, with a few modifications.

Bonus

You didn’t ask about these, and they are fairly-likely to never appear in 5e, but just in case you see reference to them and wonder what they are:

Draconic creatures

This was a template from 3.5e used in cases of someone having fairly-strong draconic ancestry, but not strong enough to use the half-dragon template. They demonstrated their draconic traits less strongly, and in the 3.5e rules, had their original type with the Dragonblooded subtype tacked on, rather than the Dragon type that half-dragons got.

Like I said, I doubt 5e will ever use these, they were primarily required to fill a mechanical niche that was specific to the 3.5e template system.

Dragonblooded creatures

This is for draconic ancestry even weaker than draconic, used for people where the draconic ancestor is ancient history, or completely forgotten. It has no effect on its own, and dragonblooded people cannot be immediately distinguished from others by inspection. However, they could take a number of feats typically reserved for dragons by virtue of their dragonblooded subtype.

Because the dragonblooded status is a matter of such slight ancestry, it is possible for characters to “discover” such ancestry and tap into it where they previously did not; the Dragontouched feat from Dragon Magic can be taken by any character with at least 11 Charisma, and grants the dragonblooded status (and some other exceedingly minor bonuses). The dragonfire adept class from the same book gains this feat as a bonus feat, and makes no requirements about it; in that case, mere veneration and emulation of dragons is enough to be considered dragonblooded.

From this we can conclude that trace amounts of draconic blood can be found very widely, at least in the 3.5e gameworld.

True Dragons

What the proper definition of a “true dragon” is was the subject of quite a lot of debate in 3.5e, and unlike the above two terms, the term “true dragon” is much more likely to appear in 5e. The metallic (gold, silver, copper, brass, bronze, etc.) and chromatic (red, black, green, blue, white, etc.) dragons are definitely true dragons. Beyond that, it gets murkier. I have made some statements about half-dragons being true dragons and dragonborn, draconians, draconic creatures, and dragonblooded creatures not being true dragons. This I am basing largely on a contentious subject in the 3.5e rules to make an in-character point. You should thus consider these statements with appropriate quantities of salt. Basically, in 3.5e, half-dragons received the Dragon type, while the others all retain their original type.

In 4e, this distinction did not exist within the rules. Player races did not have “types,” and dragonborn were the only playable form of dragon. It is unclear just how dragon-y they were meant to be.

I have not seen official statements in 5e regarding “true dragon” distinctions in that edition, aside from the fact that dragonborn are definitely not true dragons. It is unclear from Hoard of the Dragon Queen whether or not those half-dragons would be considered true dragons.

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A Half-Dragon is someone who is literally part dragon. This can be either as one of your parents, grandparents, etc, or someone who has used magic to become more dragon-like. There was a Sorcerer prestige-class who did this in 3.5 called the Dragon Disciple. Oh, and in 3.5 this was a template.

Next up: The Dragonborn. These are an honourable race with a bit of a samurai aesthetic. These were invented when someone noticed all the different ways to play a Dragon-person existed in 3e/3.5 and decided that should be an option in the 4e PHB.I didn't play much 4e, so I don't know a ton about these guys.Correction: It seems that Dragonborn started out in the 3.5 Races of the Dragon book, then where adopted into the 4e core book for the reasons above. Thanks to doppelgreener for the correction.

Finally: Draconians. These are exclusive to the Dragonlance campaign setting. They were created from the stolen eggs of good dragons by the Takhisis, the settings evil god. There are a whole bunch of types, based on what type of good dragon egg they were made from, and throughout most of the settings history, they were exclusively male, as they didn't want them able to form their own, independent, race.

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(Based on info from 3.5 edition):Yes, there are clear differences between all of those. The exact statistical changes may vary wildly between editions, but their origin (how they became draconic) should be universal between all editions.

Dragonborn is acquired through a rite of rebirth: A normal creature that has a close bond to Bahamut is chosen, performs a ritual and then is reborn from an egg as Dragonborn with some of it's previous traits lost and replaced by draconic traits.Gameplay-wise something in-between a template and a full race that can be applied to a creature at any point in it's life.

A Half-Dragon is a creature that is born from one True Dragon parent and one other creature (with the exception of those who acquire it through the Dragon Disciple class).Gameplay-wise a template that can be applied to a creature (almost all of the time, this is only possible at birth, though).

Draconian I have no in-depth knowledge about and I do not wish to make any wild guesses.

Lizardfolk and Kobolds are full-on races, with Kobolds being associated with dragons (built-in dragonblood subtype that allos acquisition of some draconic traits) and Lizardfolk with mundane reptilian creatures.

As for your renaming of Dragonborn to Half-Dragon:If the origin of that Dragonborn (what got him chosen by Bahamut) is relevant to your story in any way, that's a problem (because a half-dragon just gets born that way). Otherwise, no harm done.

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Allow me to put in 5e specific lore:

A) A Half-Dragons can be both a birth or an acquired template. It can be the result of a polymorphed dragon mating with a non-dragon (which does not always result in a Half-Dragon), or the result of a magic ritual. Half-Dragons cannot breed, but live twice as much as others of the race of the non-dragon parent or base creature turned into a Half-Dragon. Thus, as unable to breed, they are not a race, rather than a magical mutation. They get a breath weapon more similar to an actual dragon.

B) As the case above, if a Dragon breeds with a humanoid, the result can also be a Dragon bloodline Sorcerer. This can also occur as a spell/ritual from a dragon bestowing Draconic powers to someone. Specifics are unclear, but theories include:

1. If mother is dragon and father non-dragon, the result isHalf-Dragon, wile if Father is a dragon and mother non-dragon, theresult is a sorcerous origin (or vice-versa). I suggest theproposed, as Half-Dragons are referenced in Hoard of the DragonQueen as coming from a 'Hatchery', witch would mean they are bornfrom an egg, thus being created in a Draconic Body makes more sensebiologically speaking.

2. Half-Dragon specifies it occurs 'sometimes' as opposed toalways, further enhancing the theory that it is a mutation, wile the'cannon' result is a Draconic Bloodline.

3. Ritual for Half-Dragon is specified as a ritual bath in dragonBlood. Dragon Bloodline might include a transfusion instead(personal suggestion).

   In the Sorcerer entry, there is a Dragon-Humanoid, but it's not specified as a Dragon Bloodline Sorcerer, and could be a Dragonborn Sorcerer. There is a lack of evidence Dragon Bloodline Sorcerers have anything other than their scales and latter wings in common with Dragons. It's really up to the DM and/or player to decide.

C) Dragonborn is specified as an independent humanoid Race. They were created by Dragon Gods and follow them. While they look just like Half-Dragons, they lack a tail, and can't use their Breath Weapon that often.

D) Finally, Draconians are born by perverting metallic dragon eggs with foul magic, which results in a creature similar to the Dragonborn. They lack the Breath Weapon however, and instead have unspecified spellcasting abilities, possibly hinting a Draconic-Origin Sorcerer progression. Due to their foul magical origin, they are inherently evil, as opposed to Dragonborn, who consciously choose their alignment.

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Half-Dragons are literally half-dragon, as the name implies. A dragon, likely shape-shifted, ends up showing the proclivities of Zeus and beds a 'lesser creature', thus producing offspring that is half-dragon and half-something else.

Dragonborn have a variety of lore available to them depending on which edition you play, but one thing is distinctly true. They are not the direct offspring of a dragon and another species. They may or may not be able to breed with each other, but they are hatched rather than born, and are fundamentally different from half-dragons.

Addressing the Draconians specifically, the PHB states in a sidebar of the Dragonborn section that Draconians are functionally identical to Dragonborn, save that their breath weapon and resistances were traded for a different ability. We can guess that the specifics of this will be in the DMG with Kender, Warforged, and other information that is specific to a non-generic world setting.

Since the release of the DMG, we discovered that Wizards' initial statements about including the Kender and Warforged in the DMG was not correct. They stated that there were page restrictions, thus the only examples of races that appeared in the DMG were the Aasimar and the Elf(Eladrin).

Instead, the Warforged, Shifters, and more were released in a free pdf on a Wizard's webpage article called Unearthed Arcana. Current releases of this include Eberron and Mass Combat rules. We can expect that they will eventually release one for Dragonlance, thus covering the Draconians.

Ultimately, the Draconians appeared to be the first 'Dragonborn' species introduced to the game, and although the name 'Dragonborn' does not fit the Draconians in the fluff of each, they are still a humanoid dragon-race that is not really a hybrid with other races, thus they do fit in a broad sense, and the death throes are a good substitution for the breath-weapons, though limited in use (basically only when you die).

They aren't a perfect fit, but close enough that they can be a reskin or a subrace of Dragonborn and work reasonably within the rules.

AvioseAviose$endgroup$

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